My greater question for you is, "Why don't you bother to post replies from others on your website?"
I do post replies from others on my website.
I'm sure you receive replies like mine, and then keep them a secret.
They're no secret at all. Go to: http://www.mormoninformation.com/emails.htm.
Had you truly been an active member of the LDS Church, you would have eventually held the Melchizedek Priesthood.
I've held it since 1988.
Had you been a good boy, you would have eventually been set apart as a quorum leader, or as a member of a bishopric, etc.
No, thanks.
Then you would have clearly known how hard both women (especially) and men in these positions work to keep the records accurate.
I have no doubt that the records are kept as accurate as humanly possible.
Children below age 8 are only "members of record", not official members, as you seem to want to attribute to them.
But the church now provides "members of record" in their yearly statistical updates.
Trust me, it takes hours and hours on each ward team's part to keep the records as straight as possible. I can't imagine any organization on the planet keeping its records more up to date, with weekly vigilance.
I agree. So it's a wonder why those at the top don't bother to report them as accurately as they get them.
As an academician and professional researcher myself, I do wonder about your objective in life.
My objective in life probably isn't much different from yours.
If numbers are what impress you, . . .
Numbers don't impress me at all.
. . . or what you think might impress your constituency, . . .
Who is my "constituency?" I didn't think I had one.
. . . you might think about exploring less-threatening groups like Assemblies of God.
No, thanks. I've had enough of the "group god" thing to last a lifetime.
Yet their statistics, for one who seems to be as concerned as you, are of great interest.
I have no interest in the statistics of the Assemblies of God, so thanks, but no thanks.
A small group of armed men went as far as murdering two prominent leaders of the LDS Church in hopes of destroying it, a far louder cry than you are making.
I wasn't aware I was making a cry.
I make a lot of mistakes each day, but I would prefer to spend more time with my wife and family than wondering about what else I should be doing with my time.
I am the same way. On this issue, you and I are one.
p.s. Kind of an odd way of posting your e-mail address.
My e-mail address is drshades@fiber.net. I don't know of any easier way to post it than that; why would you consider it "odd?"
EXCHANGE #2
Then you must be gay?
Where on earth did you get that little bit of slander? Is everyone with an interest in Mormonism gay?
If you hold the Priesthood, then why not come out in the open and not use the pseudonym?
To keep people like you from making my family miserable in real life with your petty retributions.
Invite your bishop or stake president to read your web pages.
They can read my web pages just as easily as you can.
Or are you going to continue to operate as a coward?
Why don't you accuse your fellow Mormons who also use pseudonyms of acting as cowards? The knife cuts both ways, you know.
By the way, is there a reason you didn't answer any of my questions?
EXCHANGE #3
You do sound gay. "Dr. Shades". That's gay.
Sorry, but I'm not gay. For Heaven's sake, are we back in Junior High?
Have a little courage. At least point your website out to your stake president or bishop.
Why are you so obsessed with my stake president or bishop reading my website? I'm sure at least 99.99% of the world's population hasn't heard of my website. To hunt them all down and show them my website would take more years than I'll be alive. Once more, why are you so hung up on just those two people?
How else would either ever know it exists?
They could type keywords into a search engine, just like everyone else.
It wouldn't invite retribution, but it would get you off the hook of accountability.
What is this "hook of accountability" of which you speak?
You mentioned the Adam God Theory. In what church meeting did they teach you that "doctrine"? In my 25 years I have never seen that "doctrine" taught, so how can it be doctrine?
It was doctrine from 1852 until roughly the time of Brigham Young's death in 1877.
Does the church have 11 Million members? Why would anyone care? If they pump the numbers with accounting or you deflate the numbers with accounting what difference does it make? It is only a yard stick. It isn't about numbers. It is about people. People don't join the church because of how many members there are. Or they shouldn't.
It makes a difference when evaluating the oft-repeated claim that Mormonism is the world's fastest-growing religion.
I have been an avid reader of anti literature for about 20 years. All it has accomplished is it has strengthened my testimony. When I research each statement I find it is either false or inaccurate.
Which ones, for example?
It is rare that it is accurate or true. The accurate and true statements turn out to be legitimate differences in religion. Granted some things can't be answered. But show me a religion that has all of the answers.
It's not the things that can't be answered that open Mormonism to skepticism. It's the things that can be answered.
The other thing I can't understand is "Mormon Recovery". It is only a church. I left Catholicism after 30 something years. My whole family back forever is Catholic. I didn't need "Recovery". I just started a new set of rules. If you don't believe it any more how can it affect you?
Let me answer your question with a question: Two people are each holding knife blades in their right hands. One is holding on to it very, very loosely, while the other is holding on to it with all his might. The knives are each forcibly pulled out of their hands. Who will be the one most in need of recovery--the one who is holding on loosely, or the one who was holding on with all of his might?
Hence the reason that recovery is rarely necessary from Catholicism and other "easy" religions, but often necessary from Mormonism, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and other "difficult" religions.
My ideals changed so I found people who agreed with my new ideals. I abandoned my bar buddies. Was I a victim without knowing it? If I left Mormonism I don't see a need for "Recovery".
That's easy for you to say right now, isn't it? Whether or not you see a need for recovery is better assessed after you find out that Mormonism false, not before. (Forgive the comparison, but on September 10, how many families of September 11 victims needed counseling?)
EXCHANGE #2
[Regarding the Adam-God doctrine] A mistake was made and acknowledged and was left for the world to see. What more could you ask for?
Where was it ever acknowledged that a mistake was made?
I have read this "doctrine" and I find nothing shocking about it. It is very plausible.
If it is very plausible, why do you classify it as a mistake?
True or not what is the problem? Brigham wouldn't be the first Prophet to make a mistake.
He said he received the doctrine from God. Are you willing to concede that a prophet can be mistaken on what comes from God and what doesn't?
[Regarding the claim that Mormonism is the world's fastest-growing religion] Well I believe the initial statement was not made by the Church but the Church has repeated it.
What other falsehoods is the church in the habit of repeating?
[In response to my request for which anti-Mormon statements were either false or inaccurate] Over 20 years there has been too much to remember. I can't be specific.
Well, please point one out to me when you remember.
I find most criticism is just smoke and mirrors meant to confuse. It really all boils down to: did Joseph Smith have the "first vision". If he did it is the way it should be, if not it is all a fraud.
There are several contradictory versions of the First Vision. Which particular one do you think he actually had, and why?
I'm not sure what you mean by a "difficult" religion either. I don't mean to be flippant but I would have no trouble getting used to not Home Teaching, doing my callings and not spending 3 hours at church every Sunday and cutting my grass on Sunday.
But how would you feel knowing that all the hours you wasted on numerous callings were all in vain, the thousands of dollars you tithed to the church was all wasted, and all your hopes for attaining the Celestial Kingdom were only an illusion? And, if you were female of the Baby Boomer generation or earlier, how would you feel knowing that sacrificing your dreams was all for nothing--i.e., you dropped out of college and began having children far earlier than you wanted to in order to "follow the brethren" when it wasn't really necessary to do so after all?
EXCHANGE #3
They said it isn't doctrine. That tells me it was a mistake.
When did they say, formally and for all to hear, that it isn't doctrine?
[In response to my question, "Why do you classify it as a mistake?"] Because it isn't taught. What is your problem with it?
My "problem" is that Adam-God proves that the prophet can, indeed, lead the church astray.
[In response to my question, "Are you willing to concede that a prophet can be mistaken on what comes from God and what doesn't?"] Moses said he made the water come forth from the stone not God. Got a problem with Moses?
Yes. I'm not a Christian, so I don't believe Moses was a prophet.
David committed murder. Got a problem with David?
Yes, for the above reason.
How about Jonah? Paul persecuted Christians and killed them. Got a problem with Paul?
Yes.
[Regarding the church's membership totals] Accounting is a funny thing. You are not above using it to make your point. Why shouldn't the church?
I am above using false accounting to make my point. If the church isn't, that's a red flag.
[Regarding supposed falsehoods from anti-Mormons] One does come to mind. The Tanners. Their 5238 changes to the BOM. I am sure the number is accurate.
It isn't. It's 3,913.
But the Tanners and all who use their number imply that each one changes the meaning of the BOM when in fact very few do.
That's incorrect. No one implies that each change alters the meaning of the Book of Mormon.
Chapter and verse, punctuation, Chapter headings etc.
Those changes (along with capitalization and spelling changes) aren't counted in the 3,913 changes. The 3,913 number refers only to textual changes.
The few I've seen changing God to the Son of God multiple times. Isn't the Son of God, God also?
Not according to current LDS theology.
Then they leave out the number of changes to the Bible. If you compare all Bibles to the original Bible the number would be in the 100's of millions. It kind of makes 5238 seem insignificant.
Mormonism claims that the Bible came to us through the hands of many corrupt and inept priests and translators. On the other hand, Mormonism claims that the text of the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God. Can you honestly not see why changes in one would be expected but not changes in the other?
[In response to which particular version of the First Vision Joseph Smith actually had] Doesn't matter. Either it happened or not. Either Joseph saw God or he didn't. All different versions proves is Joseph had a bad memory. Mine isn't so great either, how about yours? What did you have for breakfast on Sept. 11, 2001? And that was only 2 years ago. Joseph wrote his account 8 years later.
That's an incredible statement, sir. If I had seen God and Jesus Christ, every last detail of the momentous event would be indelibly seared into my memory forever. The event would be with me every hour of every day. But you say that Joseph had a bad memory of the unprecedented event of seeing and speaking with both the creator of the Universe and the redeemer of mankind. Amazing.
Ever hear the saying "There is no sense in crying over spilled milk"? Well that is exactly what you are doing. Have you ever lost something. Do you still cry about it? Get over it and get on with your life. I wasted a lot of time and money on the Catholic Church. Oh well, live and learn. Chalk it up to the cost of being educated. If I carried on about the Catholic Church the way you do It would be more of my time wasted. I've got better things to do with my time.
Since you seem to be saying that pretty much everything in Mormonism "doesn't really matter," then I can see why you feel the way you do.